GEORGES GAGNON, 9 years of age

EXAMINED BY MAÎTRE A. LACHANCE, K.C, ON BEHALF OF THE CROWN:

Q. Where were you living last summer?

A. At home.

Q. At whose home? Who was there at your house? Who lived with you, there at home?

A. There was Maman, Aurore and Marie-Jeanne.

Q. Your mother, Aurore and Marie-Jeanne?

A. And Gérard.

Q. And did your father live there too, at that time? Was he living in the house?

A. No, he was in the woods.

Q. When would he return to the house, then?

A. He would not return until the evening.

Q. Now, since last summer, tell us, Did you see how your father treated Aurore?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you see with Aurore?

A. Last summer?

Q. Yes.

A. Last summer, we had a whip, it's for the cattle, and then, he would go upstairs. He beat her with it.

Q. How…did you see him go upstairs?

A. Yes.

Q. You saw him?

A. …

Q. How did you know that he was beating her upstairs? You didn't go there?

A. No, I would see him, I saw him go up, not very often.

Q. How many times did you see him go upstairs?

A. I saw him go up only four times.

Q. Now, what went on upstairs? Could you hear what was happening upstairs?

A. Yes.

Q. Where were you, while he was upstairs, where were you?

A. I was downstairs.

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Q. What was it that you heard downstairs then?

A. I heard Aurore bawling.

Q. Did Aurore say anything?

A. Yes.

Q. What did she say?

A. She was screaming: “Ouch.”

Q. Besides that, did you see if your father beat her on other occasions, besides the four times with the cattle whip? Did you see if he mistreated her, other than with the cattle whip?

A. No, only once this winter. Maman said, told him, because of…he beat her only once.

Q. What with?

A. With a switch, that's all.

Q. And why was he beating her like that--it was with a switch?

A. Because Maman told him lies.

Q. What lies did your mother tell him? Tell us what your mother told him.

A. She told Papa that Aurore was sleeping on the straw in the barn, covered with a straw mattress, and it wasn't true. It wasn't true. She had been filling it.

Q. Where was this? Where was it that he beat her like that, with a switch?

A. In the barn.

Q. In the barn?

A. He hit her only three (3) times with the switch.

Q. Where, on what part of her body, did he hit her three times with the switch?

A. On her back.

Q. Now, as for last summer, try to remember clearly, you told the Court earlier that you saw her beaten four times with a cattle whip, and I ask you now, whether you saw her beaten with anything else, last summer?

A. Yes, with the axe handle, just once.

Q. Why did he beat her with the axe handle?

A. I don't know.

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Q. Now, this winter, besides the time that he beat her with a switch in the barn, do you remember anything else?

A. Yes.

Q. What do you remember?

A. One time, one time, Maman…Maman knocked her down the stairs.

Q. But do you remember anything else that your father…

Objection to the question as irrelevant.

A. I don't remember.

Q. I'll ask you the question again. Besides the time that you saw her beaten with a switch, this winter, did you see anything else, by your father, as regards Aurore?

A. No, he did nothing, besides that.

Q. Do you remember when Aurore died?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember if Aurore had any particular wounds, about the time that she died?

A. Yes. She had some on her knees and all over her feet.

Q. Do you remember if she had these wounds – for how long had she had these wounds?

A. Yes. Since last summer, nearly.

Q. Did you notice anything else, about the time she died, besides her knees and her feet?

A. No.

Q. Did you notice anything with her face?

Objection to the question, on behalf of the defence.

Q. Did you understand the question?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you notice anything on her face, on her forehead?

A. Yes, she had a black mark on her forehead, like this.

By the Court

Q. How long had she had this black mark?

BY MAÎTRE LACHANCE, K.C, ON BEHALF OF THE CROWN.

Q. How long had she had this?

A. I can't say how long.

BY THE COURT: Approximately how long?

Q. I can’t say how long it was.

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Q. Approximately?

A. About…three (3) years.

Q. About three years?

A. Approximately.

BY MAÎTRE LACHANCE, K.C, ON BEHALF OF THE CROWN:

Q. How long is that? Do you know how many months there are in a year?

A. No.

BY THE COURT: How many days or weeks were there?

A. There were four (4) days.

BY MAÎTRE LACHANCE, K.C, ON BEHALF OF THE CROWN:

Q. Now, can you say how many days or weeks it was, before she died, that your father last beat her?

A. Five (5) days before she died.

Q. Can you tell me what he beat her with, five days before?

A. With the switch.

CROSS-EXAMINED BY MAÎTRE FRANCOEUR, K.C, ON BEHALF OF THE ACCUSED:

Q. You have said that, last summer, your father beat Aurore with the whip, upstairs?

A. Yes.

Q. Four times. Was this before Aurore went to the hospital?

A. Yes.

Q. During haying season?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did he beat her like this?

A. I don't remember why.

Q. You don't remember why?

A. …

Q. Isn't it true that it was because your mother told your father to beat her?

A. No, that wasn't it.

Q. Why, then?

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A. I can't remember why.

Q. Did he beat her for no reason, or else for something she had done?

A. It was for nothing.

Q. How's that?

A. Maman said something that wasn't true.

Q. Because your mother said something and it wasn't true?

A. …

Q. Your mother said that she was a thief?

A. Yes, and then she put money in Aurore’s collar, and then she said that it was Aurore who had stolen it.

Q. And is that why your father beat her?

A. Yes.

Q. He believed, your father, that she was a thief?

A. Yes.

Q. And it was your mother who had arranged to make her look like a thief?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you tell your father that it was your mother who had done this?

A. No. Maman said that she would do the same to us, if we told.

Q. Your mother said that she would do the same to you, if you told?

A. ...

Q. Did she say that she had stolen from the church too?

A. Yes.

Q. Your mother said that?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that true, that she had stolen from the church?

A. I don't know. Maman had put some other stuff in the cupboard, and she had put this in afterwards to put…

Q. Speak up.

A. Maman took something from the communion table…

Q. A clasp?

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A. Yes, to hold the tablecloth--I don't know where she took it from-- and then she put it in Aurore's smock.

Q. And she was the one who put it into the smock?

A. Yes, on our bed. And it fell onto the floor. She went to show it to Aurore.

Q. She said that it was Aurore who had stolen it?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you tell your father that it was your mother who had done it?

A. Yes.

Q. Did your father already know that?

A. She didn't want us to tell.

Q. Did your mother do anything else to get your father to beat Aurore?

A. Yes.

Q. What did she say?

A. She would put filth on the floor, next to the stove. She would say it was Aurore.

Q. Did she put that filth there?

A. Yes.

Q. Where?

A. Upstairs, everywhere. Then he said it was Aurore.

Q. Did she put any elsewhere as well?

A. No.

Q. Were you aware that she had put some of it in your father's clothing?

A. Yes, and then, in his summer coat, and then she would say that it was Aurore.

Q. When Aurore returned from the Hotel Dieu hospital, was she well?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did she go to the Hotel Dieu?

A. I think that Maman had hurt her. She said that it was the little Bedard boy and the little boys, at my Uncle Alfred's.

Q. And it was your mother who had beaten her that time?

A. Yes, she took the poker. She hit her on the foot. After that, she burned her. The next day, it was…

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over.

Q. The next day, it was over and that's why she sent for Doctor Lafond. And then she was sent to the Hotel Dieu?

A. Yes.

Q. She said that it was the little Bedard boys who had done that to her?

A. Yes.

Q. This is what she told your father too?

A. Yes, and then, she tried to have them take…

Q. Did you tell your father that it was your mother who had done this?

A. No. She didn't want us to tell.

Q. When Aurore returned from the Hotel Dieu, was she better?

A. Yes.

Q. She was healed?

A.…

Q. The switch your father used to beat Aurore in the barn, this winter, was it a big one?

A. No.

Q. A small switch?

A. Yes.

Q. He beat her across the back?

A. Yes.

Q. On top of her dress?

A. Yes.

Q. Was she wearing anything else, besides the dress?

A. No.

Q. Did you know that Marie Jeanne tended to Aurore? That she put ointment on her?

A. Yes.

Q. When?

A. Last summer and this winter.

Q. Who was it that told Marie Jeanne to tend to her like this?

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A. No one.

Q. No one?

A. …

Q. Wasn't it your father who said to tend to her?

A. I don't remember.

Q. You don't remember?

A. …

Q. It was ointment that she put on her wounds?

A. Yes.

Q. You’ve said that your father punished Aurore with a cattle whip. That whip was lost last summer?

A. Yes, and then, the next day, when he left to go haying, he lost his whip.

Q. He lost it?

A. …

Q. You say that he also beat her with an axe handle? When was this? Was it last summer?

A. Yes, last summer.

Q. He beat her on top of her dress?

A. Yes, across the back.

Q. This was before she went to the hospital?

A. No. After.

Q. You say this was last summer?

A. Yes.

Q. It wasn't last summer that she went to the hospital. It was in the month of September or October. That was before she went to the hospital?

A. Yes.

BY THE COURT : Was it before or after the hospital?

A. Before.

BY MAÎTRE FRANCOEUR, K.C., FOR THE ACCUSED:

Your father, here, was he good to you?

A. Yes.

Q. He took good care of you?

A. Yes. He did nothing besides beat her with the cattle whip and the switch.

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Q. He would not have beaten Aurore like that, if your mother hadn't told lies about her?

A. No, he wouldn't have beaten her.

And further deponent saith not.

MJ Tremblay
Stenographer

I, the undersigned, sworn stenographer, certify that the foregoing is the faithful transcript of my shorthand notes, the whole in accordance with the law.

M. J. Tremblay
Official stenographer.